Chris Bonney, VP of Strategy
Zach Wilson, Partner
Sara Fay, VP of Marketing, First American Healthcare Finance
Hi everybody. This is Chris Bonney with Gulo Solutions and this is web marketing insights podcast. Today we have with us as always, Zach Wilson, founder and CTO of Gulo, and we have a very special guest today, Sara Fay from first American healthcare finance. Sara, thanks so much for joining us today.
Sara Fay:Yeah. Hi everyone. Thank you so much for having me.
Chris Bonney:It's really our pleasure. So Zach, uh, today we're going to talk about digital marketing and how first American does it. Sara is going to give us some insights on what she's going to continue to do, start doing, stop doing all of that kind of stuff. Um, did you want to talk any more as a setup for leading into today? Um, and you know, do we want to get, uh, our first questions over to Sara so we can learn more as quickly as possible?
Zach Wilson:Yeah, let's just, uh, let's, let's hand it off to Sara to, uh, tell us a little bit about what she does, uh, and um, how they do it and what, what they do as a company as well. So, Mmm, Sara, tell us a little bit about you. Okay.
Sara Fay:So I'm Sara[inaudible], I'm vice president of marketing at first American healthcare finance. Yeah. My responsibilities are, uh, basically everything under the entire marketing spectrum. So that's our overall marketing strategy, content development, uh, conferences and events, association relationships, um, all of our digital marketing, um, print, whatever. So, uh, that all falls under my responsibility. Mmm. And my company, first American provides a equipment financing and leasing for healthcare providers. So that can range anywhere from various small independent doctors groups all the way up to, um, billion and billion dollar health systems.
Zach Wilson:That's great. That's that. I don't know how you get any sleep. It doesn't sound like you have very much to do every single, uh, every single channel is covered with, uh, with your job. What do you, uh, what, what's your favorite channel for marketing? What do you, what's, what do you, what do you love? What's in terms of what you do? What's your favorite one? Content video. Yeah,
Sara Fay:with my role, I've done a little bit of everything and I think that's kind of neat about my role. I get to, um, kind of dabble in a lot. Uh, I love abundance. Um, cause I feel like those are the closest you can get to your customer and just provide a really unique experience. Um, we do video really well. Uh, and digital is, um, obviously probably the most a channel right now, but it's, um, from my perspective also one of the hardest just because, uh, it's, it's very saturated and, um, even though it's important to get things online, it's also very competitive. And, and how do you get your content to the right people? Um, kind of where they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, yeah, we, we even as a small organization struggle with that as well. And I think it speaks to the thing that I thought was so captivating about learning, uh, learning a bit about you and what you guys are doing is that whether you're a 10 person[inaudible] organization like us or a massive organization like you guys in dealing with major, major, billion, multibillion dollar budget hospitals with, you know, seven, eight figure budgets for buying equipment, that there's a lot, there's a lot to do. And from a staff and resource perspective, it was interesting to hear how, how you guys tackle it too. So, um, so I think what, what, what would be captivating to people[inaudible] are listening are probably like how you guys, how you guys manage some of your channels[inaudible] uh, what channels are, um, are really great for you. Uh, you talked about video, how you guys using that, how are you using that to engage your customers, uh, top of the funnel, bottom of the funnel, um, where, where that's taking them. Can you talk a little bit about that? So yeah, video first American. Um, it's a really important channel for us. Uh, we kinda have, um, some core values based on being technology focused. Um, industry focus. We have great people, great culture. So when we create videos, um, kind of all that comes together, uh, we'll go out to our clients, um, actually get into their organization and film, um, patients film what they're doing, how the equipment is being used. Um, kind of the financing side, why they decided to go with first American. Um, and it just creates like a really, really neat story. Um, some of them more fun ones have been, uh, I've actually been able to go into surgeries and, um, film like[inaudible] like ophthalmology equipment being used, um, to remove cataracts and stuff like that. And it just, I mean, I think the healthcare industry as a whole is really interesting because Mmm. It's kind of very traditional and solving a[inaudible] challenges with medical conditions, but it's also very like technological Lee advanced. Um, and you need to have the right and the right year a technology in place to give the patients the best care. Mmm. So I would say long story short, like our videos, um, actually turn out really, really well and they're, they're fun to watch. They tell the story well. Um, bye. I would say, um, given that there are good content, like one of my struggles is now that we have these great videos, like what do you do with them? Um, and we obviously held them on the website. We use them a bit for social, uh, but are a decision maker at a lot of our, um, clients. And prospects is a CFO at maybe a major hospital and uh, it's, it's an audience, um, or even an individual person that is highly sought out and um,[inaudible] and that's, I think that's the marketing like puzzle for me. Like I have some great content, but how do you got it? Like to the actual person that you want to watch it.[inaudible]
Zach Wilson:yeah.[inaudible] in the traditional sense too. It's, you know, talking to your customer, a CFO at a hospital what w yeah. What affects their decision making? What's, what are their, you know, getting down to there was real, real pains, right. And, and no, the empathy of the videos, the video sound awesome from a case study pants standpoint and humanizing equipment financing, right? Like, you know, bringing that to the, the, uh, the operating room and showing the success of some of the implication that I'm sure some of those things can have in terms of buying equipment for hospitals and doing innovative cutting edge things and, and that, but not, there's not really a, but, but it is, but like, then you're, it's really like the connection between that and your actual customer, who's the CFO, who's, you know, I'm being stereotypical here, but[inaudible] in their office, just looking at spreadsheets and looking at the numbers of this, you know, like how much of, how much of the story actually matters to a CFO. You know, I'm, I'm not saying they're not human, like I'm sure they, you know, they want to see the successes play out, but really like, what are their, you know, what are their, at their core of their decision making process. Yeah. In terms of finding the company to give them, you know, to write them that whatever check, however big of those checks get, um, can we get one of those checks? Um, but yeah, so I don't, it's, it's kind of interesting because, yeah, we, we deal with this, we deal with this a lot too with our, our customers. And ultimately your, no, we're trying to find what that pain point is for the customer to help our clients connect with that customer and fine and, and then then the channels to really speak to them about issues. And it's,
Sara Fay:it's, it's, it's, I mean, it's a big problem. We talked about it offline. Mmm. You know, from an email perspective, you know, they're, you, you guys, in terms of your email, um, and how you're using that, you're, you're unsure of, of the power of that because of the inundation of[inaudible][inaudible] email and how competitive email is for those, uh, uh, those types of people, whether or not 30,000, you know, as a CFO looking at email marketing, um, from you guys, you know, do you guys though those type of questions. So where can you, where can you engage those? But those, uh, those type of customers in the, in the different channels. So what have you guys found in talking to your customers? A sales team, I guess talking to your sales team and them talking to customers where, well, I mean w w well, what is the tipping point for those? Is that[inaudible] I mean, it's the relationships, right? I mean, you guys have big sales teams, um, that are out in the forest touching those buyers. Yeah. And actually not that big of a sales team. And so we have 12 that cover the United States, but it's a very sales driven organization. So they're always, um, always doing outbound efforts to try to reach our target customer. Um, but I think one of the, um, probably one of our biggest competitors and, uh, and kind of what we're trying to overcome is just, um, just like change. So if, if a hospital CFO hasn't, at least in the past or pays cash, um, or hasn't worked with us before, like in order to work with us, they have to do something differently. And then, so, um, we have a very, very long sales cycle, um, and it just trying to, um, can you tenue to reach them with, um, kind of all aspects of our value prop and just showing them that they, it would be worth it to, um, kinda do something differently and do something they haven't done in the past and just give us a chance and work with us. So I think that's, uh, that's funny. We sort of stumbled on the sales team. We weren't actually, they're going to talk about them, but it reminds me that from a marketing perspective, uh, you know, part of your job is supporting sales, right? Your, your, your job is to make their job easier so that when they're okay doing their outbound, that they're doing their outbound further down the funnel. Right. It's, everything isn't cold. Everything is a nice cold. So what do you w in terms of that relationship, what do you, do you guys do anything that you feel is like really successful or works really well or that you think you needed to work on in terms of like augmenting or helping your sales team? Yup. Better[inaudible] content marketing on the website, whether it's a, you know, better inside sales or warmer, warmer leads to get to them. Okay. Talk about that in the digital sense and that relationship. Yeah. Um, so I think one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of our, um, a lot of our sales people have been in the seat for a long time and there's really not that many, um, hospitals and health systems in the nation. Um, so they know who they are, prospects are and they keep calling on them throughout the year. Um, so in Mark had I, it's kind of my job okay. To keep things fresh and keep things relevant. And then, um, so then, uh, I would say, um, my role is almost like a two step process, like first marketing internally to say all is getting them to understand what content I'm providing to them. Uh, and then, um, and then they enter in like pass it along to their prospects or whoever it might be relevant to. Um, I think what that whole process, uh, we're just trying to get better and better, um, at kind of using data to like drive what topics we're doing and what would be irrelevant at that time of year. Um, and I think we've gotten pretty good good at it from an internal standpoint. So I'm looking at all the data that's, uh, within sales force and our CRM and trying to, um, yeah, that to guide, um, like some seasonality to our campaign topics. Uh, but an area I think we're still struggling with, um, is external data. So kind of the unknown and what we don't have, um, recorded in our database. So it's just like a[inaudible] cold prospect that we've never talked to. We don't know anything about them. Like, how do they, how do we know why topics are interesting to them? Um, kind of where they're going on the wild, what their routine is for what they're searching for. Stuff like that. Right, right. Yeah. Good. I mean, this is like deep dive industry specific, key word, research and[inaudible]. I mean today I got to imagine someone in this level two, whether it's[inaudible] the CFO or more likely probably someone is tasked with trying to find people that are, yeah, we need to buy an MRI machine, whatever. How can we do this? The C CFO knows this, right? But how does he, how does he, how does he get, uh, some qualified people in front of him? Either he's doing the homework or someone below him is tasked with the homework of building a short list to do that. So the question then becomes, is what are they looking at? What are they looking for? So, uh, that, uh, that would be, I dunno if you guys have done that, but that would be kind of interesting from a, um, just surveying some of your existing relationships. You're the, you know, you're talking about the CFOs, but are, are they, are they shopping or tasking some of this shortlist stuff out? Is there someone under them that are R D is doing the homework? I don't know, doing that research well[inaudible] like from my perspective, I think it's a really interesting role because, um, they're not, they're not on Google searching. Like, how do I finance an MRI machine and because they know it and if the F the provider is credit worthy, where are they? They have a whole list of, um, different financial services organizations that could help them out or they could just pay cash. Um,[inaudible] but I think the challenge with my role is that even though they're not like directly searching for how do I finance medical equipment, um, they are on Google searching for something. I mean, everybody uses Google right now. So kind of the challenge I have is trying to think about F if I'm a CFO in that role, I know I'm not, um, searching the basic, like, how do I finance this? But, but like what would I be searching for? And Mmm. And I think that's where it gets like, um, just like a little more sophisticated and, uh, kind of, um, why, what are they interested in that they're just looking up from a day to day? Yeah. Yeah. I think it, yeah, there's certainly a level of sophistication and, and research there. But there, there's also, you know, being creative with what, what those, what those people and their actual buying journey. Yeah. Leasing journey looks like financing journey looks like. Um, and you know, having these strategies and these tactics abstracted away from your day to day, right? Like we're all, we're all guilty of this in some way of just getting into the grind of, okay, doing a newsletter or writing a writing a content piece, right.[inaudible] but high, high level. Yeah. You know, what do we, what are we doing tactically to Mmm. To, you know, reach this goal and what are the strategies that are in place to bring us to this goal? You know, and you've got yes, multichannel, you've got these multichannel efforts, but how do these all actually talk back up to our top level goal and match back up to our top level goal? And that's kind of some, I mean, for small organizations and even large and nations people get, people get lost in that we're doing, uh, we're doing quiet. We're doing quite a few of right now with people are just like, I mean, we've got a client right now. They've got, I dunno, they probably got like, they've got like five people on their marketing team that bet an entire marketing team.[inaudible] they're just, they don't know what the[inaudible] I mean, they're, they're just doing all this stuff all in these different lanes and it's not all coming together, matching up to the top level goal, whatever, whatever the top level goal is. And so it's, it's, you know, it's, it's kind of being[inaudible] stepping in and, and saying, yeah, maybe that sort of CMO role, but shaping a vision, saving a strategy just so that they can, yeah. Have these ideas too. Mandate to, Hey, email team, here's what we're trying to do. Yeah, match this back up. Hey, social team, Hey content team. Hey video team it podcast team. This, this example that I'm talking about has all of those channels and they have teams and all of those channels, but[inaudible] are all doing different things. They're all sending different messages and they've got like four audiences and they don't even know like who they're, they're, they're just, they didn't have no strategy of who they're talking to and how they're talking to those people. And, um, and ultimately that, you know, that's really important because you're talking about too is[inaudible] the CMOs, what is, what is, what is their user journey look like? Where are, where are they, where are they consuming? Where are they getting this impression? I mean, you guys are, I'm guessing you guys go to, I dunno, you, you showed me or, uh, your event calendar this year. You're at like some, something ridiculous like 30 of us 30 association trade shows this year. Um, and so you're, you're, you're, your place in the marketplace from an awareness perspective and visibility perspective is, I'm guessing it's gotta be pretty high, right? Like does that, um, I mean, is there anyone that's more visible in your space, specifically your healthcare space than you guys or no?[inaudible] well, I mean there is bigger bang. Um, and we were owned by a, a large bank. We're owned by city national, which is owned by RBC. Um, by we, uh, we're about a 250 person company. So, uh, we operate independently. Um, I would say specifically in, in the healthcare space, um, there probably is no, uh, no other, a competitor of ours that is as visible and as out there in the industry. Um, and that's, that's why I like events and I like conferences cause at least step Mmm. At least, you know, if you got there and talk to the person you wanted to talk to, like you did it and you made that connection. And, um, I think, I don't know, I just think marketing, um, it's like a really neat role right now because you have, I like that end of the spectrum where, um, you did your job and you connected with a person, um, and, and you can walk away saying, um, I made the most I could out of that event. And then you have the whole digital side where, and I guess I guess tools are getting better and better now, but it's more I would say of a mystery of if you actually did reach that person, um, if you resonated with them and then, um, and then how many times you have to reach them with a good message and[inaudible] and good content to get them from numbering who you are and a non, not only remembering, um, but letting you be part of the bidding process and have a seat at the table. So like a good conversation or a good experience. Like you can walk away[inaudible] like just having confidence. That was good. Um, I mean there's all kinds of data right now, like especially with, um,[inaudible] email and digital. It's like I said, seven, seven touch points before they even like start to remember who you are. Um, and that has to be consistent. Um, who knows if that's not that number is even accurate anymore. Um, and it just like how, how many times do they have to see your, your company, um, through like their needs, feed on social and then email and then getting a phone call and then, um, direct mailer or, or eventually get into your website. And then, um, and then I think even if you do get onto your website, like that has to be a really good experience too. So, um, it just, it's that balance between, um, digital getting harder and harder, um, but also more and more important. So it just, um, it's never, never gonna be an easy job.
Chris Bonney:No, definitely not. Hey, uh, Sara, quick question for you. Just switching gears a little bit to your websites specifically. So we've talked about sales and we've talked about events and you know, when it comes to your website and your send people there, what, what's the scenario by which you want someone to end up at your site? Um, and we can talk about how you get them there in a minute, but when people get there, what are the calls to action? What are the things that you're hoping someone that comes to your site actually, um, does what, or are there a couple of calls to action? One specific thing you want people to do? Is it find information?
Sara Fay:Yeah, I would say mainly find information. Um, we're, I've told both of you were in the process of redoing our website right now. Um, I, uh, I have some, um, specifically to just request a quote for a project. Um, I would say that, Mmm, probably the call to action, like tied most to like actually getting a seat at the table, um, and being able to bid on a project. But then, um, I guess from my perspective, uh, the goal of getting someone to my website is just to show our credibility, show that we're backed by a bank, um, and then give insight into, um, all the different types of projects that we can finance for them. So, um, we, we don't just do medical equipment, but we do software. Um, we do technology, renovations, expansions. So yeah, like even if even if a person thinks they might be familiar with what they do, um, I think on the website having a lot of content that actually shows what we do, um, may open their eyes a little bit more.[inaudible].
Chris Bonney:Gotcha,
Sara Fay:gotcha.
Chris Bonney:Um, can you talk about search and how that affects how people end up at your site? Oh, you doing SEO paid? Uh, you know, what kind of things are you doing around driving people to your site?
Sara Fay:So I'd say that's an area we've kinda struggled with. Um, just cause, and I touched on this a little bit, but, um, usually if you're a CFO, a hospital, um, you're a kind of a more sophisticated buyer. You're not like Googling how to[inaudible] how to finance something. Um, the other side of that that, uh, I forgot to mention is, um, if someone's financing, like how do I finance a certain type of medical equipment? Like usually it's a consumer, so usually it's someone[inaudible] that needs help with their, there are medical bills to like does it have the insurance or it doesn't have the finances. So if you take like the very obvious search terms, like that's not ever going to be who we're, we're trying to reach. So, um, I think that's why it's been really challenging for us. And again, like I said earlier, like I have no doubt in my mind that CFR CFOs are using Google. It just like, what exactly, like what are they typing into it? Um, and then, uh, yeah, I was gonna say what, what the way my role is designed, um, you jump into it for a little bit and you get interested and like trying to, yeah. Like figure it out for a while, but then you have like, you still have to build your content and go to conferences and, um, work with the sales teams and plan events so you don't[inaudible] it's hard to carve out enough time that you need to actually like figure out what they're searching for.
Chris Bonney:Yup. Yeah. And I, that is interesting too, because that's what we talk to some of our clients about too. They're in similar scenarios. It's[inaudible] they're doing something on there and it might not even be related to what you do. It might be in some peripheral way, but if we can find a way to reach them there and, and bring them over, right. And there's some, you know, you need to make sure you're, you're being relevant and, and you know, there's some nuance to that approach, but that is that the question that we're trying to ask the people that we're trying to sell to, when they're thinking about things like us, where are they going? It might not be the most intuitive keyword that you'd think of off the cuff. It could be something else. So, um, yeah, absolutely. Okay.
Zach Wilson:Yeah. And
Chris Bonney:[inaudible]
Zach Wilson:[inaudible] I mean, and just bringing that into the other[inaudible] the other channels too, which is if you're looking at, if you're looking at things like social as well, you know, fun finding things that actually pop off the page, right? Like, I mean the[inaudible], whether it's, whether it's the, I mean we talked about this too, I think offline was like[inaudible][inaudible] the systematic approach and the balance of like the branded, uh, the branded profiles on LinkedIn versus like the individual profiles. And you know, we're struggling with this on Friday with like how things flow, right? Like the, the, the utility of the branded profile and the brand on, on LinkedIn is, is so far down the list as compared to, um, uh, some of the other social sites, Facebook and Instagram specifically. And those are, those have been propped up that the brand is, the brand is the brand is number one. And I mean, we're struggling with this too in terms of just having some awareness at the brand level, right? Because that's your, I mean, you're, you're B2B, we're[inaudible], we're B2B as well. So we're looking for those people that are, that are on there. They're doing something. Yeah. You know,[inaudible] where's it coming from? Is it coming from your sales team and their existing relationships and their existing connections? Or is it coming from the brand? Like who's following the company brand? Not probably not a CFO, right? Like they're not gonna, they're not going to be consuming that stuff directly. So it's like in social, where do you, how do you actually reach those, reach those, reach those companies? So yeah, it's interesting. It's something we're struggling with too, so no matter how big you are, the LinkedIn struggle exists. Um, okay. Well, uh, what w anything, anything else, uh, from your perspective, uh, Sara that you want to just, you the one thing, actually, the one thing I wanted to bring back to was the last thing I want to touch on. You've touched on, we didn't really flush it out. What's the, um, which we've talked about before, uh, with, with, with you offline with the sea. And you mentioned today was the seasonality aspect of what you do. Mmm. Can you[inaudible] talk about that and like what are we talking about? Are we talking about, you know, winter there's, there's, there's snow in the background of all the videos or what, what are you guys doing? What's the season? What are the seasonal, uh, aspects of, uh, of your buying cycle?
Sara Fay:Um, so those requests, uh, actually came from my sales team and like I create the marketing plan year after year and, and they just said, um, we really want it more data influencing like the marketing campaign topics. Um, and then, so I think where I struggle a bit is like the external data, um, because I, I just don't have the bandwidth or the resources right now, um, to get good, like easy to understand data that I can use, uh, for my marketing campaigns. Um, but what I do have is access to really, really great internal data through sales force. Mmm. So this year, uh, I did go in, um, and I'd had an mapped out like the months that we were winning on different types of projects. So I found March was, um, kind of our month for medical equipment where we were seeing the most opportunities. Um, I found, um, and I use kind of like a different theory for all my different campaigns. Um, yeah, I just saw some success in the past from a commercial card campaign. We did, I'm sorry, I said why, why muscle is something that has worked. And then, um, I just mapped out trying to have some kind of data points, uh, to like validate why I was doing, um, that particular campaign topic, um, at that time of year. And then, um, so I think, I think it's a good start. Um, I think are the internal data like that I used, um, it's fact, so it's coming from somewhere. Um, and then what I tried to do a little bit more of is just get like, um, like external data. Uh, so we're, we're partners with the American hospital association, so I got some reports from them. Um, uh, but it would be nice to kind of understand the buying cycle better of of one different hospitals or are purchasing different equipment and technology and software. And like why they're doing it at that time of year.
Zach Wilson:That's, I think that's, that's fascinating. That's really interesting. Uh, that the seasonality aspect of it and where that, where that this wasn't exactly, well the seasonality aspect, but where that data comes from is there's this, I think there's this, when you say the word data, that data has to be, you know, this, you have to do, you have to pour through these millions and millions of record and come up with some elegant pie graph or bar graph to represent something. Right. But I think you've, you've taken that, yeah. Right. Uh, a step away from that and just almost one, uh, sort of anecdotal in terms of what you, you know, just looking at your purchasing cycles, what your customers are doing and the, I, that's genius. I think that's, that's amazing. Um, it's really smart. Uh, so that's a great, I think that's a great takeaway for people in general is it doesn't, you don't always have to have, uh, you know, some website report or trend, social trending report, but look at your, look at your historical, your historical data. And what, when people are buying and what they're doing and when and why and how that matches up and then try and, uh, try and make[inaudible], uh, make some marketing, uh, do some marketing against that. And yeah, I think this is something that we touch on every once in a while too, which is just, yeah, try and[inaudible] which is sometimes a struggle these days is just, you know, just just being, um, just being creative and trying some different things. You know, right now you've done this and you can try it and see how it works and maybe, maybe if maybe you've stumbled on a whole new, uh, strategy for the organization.
Sara Fay:Um, but yeah, I mean I love that too because I think a lot of, sometimes people overthink, like using data and I mean, you can just start small, like try something out and then like build momentum. So I mean, I don't, I don't think you have to plan for years and years and years to all of a sudden launched this like huge initiative. Like, just start with a small group or some small points and then you can always build. But
Chris Bonney:yeah, that seems to be a recurring theme here, doesn't it Zack? Just get in and just start, start and it'll flush itself out over time. Hey, want to just, um, Zachary, Sara give you each a chance before we wrap it up. Is there any closing things you want to say, Zach? Um, before we do that?
Zach Wilson:No, just thank you to Sara for setting aside the time to talk with us. I, I, uh, stumbled on some really, uh, really interesting things as we usually do. We always come into these things with this outline and roadmap. Then I looked back at my questions and I'd ask one of them. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. I want to do one more thing, all this other stuff
Chris Bonney:and, and yeah. And Sara, I will see if you have anything else in closing want to say, but I do also want to give the URL of your website. So it's first American healthcare finance, it's the acronym of that F a H f.com. So that's where people can go check out website and see what you're all about at the end of the day. So with that, Sara, is there anything you'd like to say in closing before we wrap it up?
Sara Fay:Um, no, just thanks for having me. I mean, I thought we had a lot of really great conversation too, so it's just fun stuff to talk about and
Chris Bonney:yeah,
Sara Fay:yeah, definitely enjoyed being on.
Chris Bonney:Good. Well, we appreciate you being on. This is the web marketing insights podcast from Gulo solutions. Uh, thanks for everyone to, to everyone for listening and we'll catch you again real soon. Uh, if you want to hit the subscribe button below on YouTube, that would be great. Otherwise we will catch you next time. Thanks everybody. Hi everybody. Thanks for checking out the podcast today. Uh, go to Gulo solutions.com to learn more about us, subscribe to our newsletter. Uh, also if you can hit subscribe on our channel here on YouTube, uh, that would be great as well.