The Web Marketing Insights Podcast
The Web Marketing Insights Podcast
An Association's Digital Marketing Success Story
Chris Bonney, VP of Strategy
Zach Wilson, Partner
Amy Gavin, Director of Digital Strategy, American Society for Nutrition
[inaudible].
Chris Bonney:Hi everybody and welcome to the web marketing insights podcast. Again, very special episode. Zach Wilson and myself from Gulo Solutions. Here we are at the Pew charitable trust building on location in Washington, D C for a very special episode with Amy Gavin from the American society for nutrition. She is the director of digital strategy there. Amy, welcome. Thanks for having me. Really excited, Zach, to have Amy talk a little bit about what they're doing over@nutrition.org around digital marketing, content marketing, email, uh, data acquisition, all that good stuff. Uh, Amy, just to get started, do you want to just tell us a little bit about what, um, ASN does and sort of what the organization is about?
Amy Gavin:Sure. American society for nutrition is a nonprofit scientific society. We represent people who are working in the field of nutrition science, so those people might be academics or lab scientists, a lot of government officials and policymakers, people out in the industry. And also people who first come to mind for consumers like us. So dieticians and medical doctors too. We have about 7,000 members all around the world, members all around the world and ASN serves as sort of the joining force or the community for these professionals. We provide education, uh, an annual meeting, an annual meeting, um, for peer review journals, lots of other professional networking opportunities. And we advocate for nutrition research funding and just for the field in general. So overall, our nonprofit mission is to, uh, make the world a healthier place through evidence-based nutrition.
Chris Bonney:Awesome. Great. Thank you so much for that. Oh, thanks Amy for that. That's great. I mean, you guys are doing a lot of great things at ASN. I'm very excited. Can you tell us what your job does? What's a day in the life look like for you? And then we can kind of get into, uh, exactly how you do what you do, but tell us what you do.
Amy Gavin:Sure. So, um, there are no two days that are the same for, um, for what I'm doing, I lead the overall digital strategy of ASN. So that includes digital marketing, our websites, um, some of our digital systems, like the integration between our association management system and other systems like, um, websites and social media and things like that. I lead the strategy for social media.
Chris Bonney:Okay. And as part of that, what are your, what are the initiatives that you're most proud of and that you've taken on in the last year?
Amy Gavin:Sure. So we've done a lot in the last year. There've been a lot of changes at ASN. Uh, we launched our new annual meeting two years ago, well in 2018 so we're going into our third, our third annual meeting. So there's been a lot of changes to help support that and to help grow that. Um, and our membership is growing our, we have a new journal, so that has spawned new digital marketing activities too. Um, but over the last year, one big thing we did is we updated the blog portion of our website nutrition network. So we knew we had a high volume of web traffic, but we weren't using our website for much other than just resources for our members. So I guess that's to say our website didn't have much of a marketing focus. So we wanted to know who are all these people who are coming to our site. We know we have a valuable domain. nutrition.org and nutrition is a hot topic. So it's inevitable that a lot of users will come to our site from search engines. But what were they coming for? What did they want from us and how could we serve them? And ultimately if it's our target audience, how can we convert them to become members and come to our meeting and subscribe to our journals? Um, so our first thought was we have all of this great intellectual property that we're sitting on from our journals and our meeting content. How can we get that on nutrition.org to drive more traffic and, and convert these people into joining ASN? Yeah. So we worked with a partner and they redesigned a section of our site, our blog, and allowed us the, the redesign allowed us to incorporate new types of content. And it gave us a more modern look and feel and, and more functionality for us as staff to market different programs and activities. So that's been really useful. Uh, but one directive we had from this project is to gather more first party data. Who are these people who are coming and, and a conversion for us at this time was to get them to enter their email. Um,
Chris Bonney:yeah. And so how did, uh, what did you do exactly on the page? Was it just simply like a subscribe or join our newsletter? What, how did you draw that man? What was the copy and what was the thought process around that?
Amy Gavin:Sure. So on, I think every page there's an opportunity for the user to enter his or her email to subscribe to a newsletter or just subscribe to monthly updates. Or if it's content that's really high value, we might require an email to get access to the content.
Chris Bonney:So you're doing different things depending on where on the site they are at. Sometimes it's a newsletter pitch. Sometimes it's a download something. Sometimes it's, you know. Okay. Gotcha,
Amy Gavin:gotcha. And you weren't doing that before? Not really. There were a couple of places throughout the site, but they weren't super successful. They weren't, um, easy to find it. They weren't compelling to the two web visitors to enter their email. Whereas with this new design users are reading valuable content and then they're prompted to enter their email to get more. So just nuts and bolts of it. Um, you've got a blog post, great content, you know, people are coming and you're getting a lot of traffic and it's high value. And so is it fair to say what you've done then in the middle of the post? Is that the, is are you putting things promotional things and email asks in the middle of the posts? Are you doing all that at the bottom of where does it fall on the page? That seems to have been getting attraction. Um, really different places. We, we didn't want any blog posts to look exactly like another one. We don't want people to get used to what they're seeing. Um, so on some blog posts we might have a call to action in the middle of the content that tells people why they should join ASN. On another one we might have a call to action to sign up for a webinar. So it kind of depends on the content and um, what makes most sense in, in that post at the bottom of every single post, I believe there is an an opportunity to subscribe to newsletters. Gotcha.
Zach Wilson:This is a interesting conversation. Just the way we're talking about it too, because this is something we grapple with, with talking to the greater public and sometimes our clients too. And what, what is, what is this, how do you describe this? This is a for, for digital marketers, this is called something called conversion rate optimization, right? Or conversion optimization. But you talk to somebody about this without giving all of the anecdotal information that you've just giving their eyes, their eyes glaze over and they fall asleep on you. Cause you just don't know. But ultimately what you're doing, what you're doing is, uh, you've been doing conversion optimization to your blog posts and yeah. Um, and, and engaging, finding opportunities to engage your readers and collect valuable information, um, which, which is, which is, which is amazing. I mean, that's, yeah. Is there any, is there any data that you guys have on that or,
Amy Gavin:yeah. So, um, nine months after the launch, well, let me back up. So we launched the redesign[inaudible] with our annual meeting. So that worked out really well for us because we were able to use these new features and jump in from our annual meeting. We had all this content coming out of our annual meetings, so we were able to jump in and put everything to use right away. Um, so that really propelled us forward because it showed an increase in traffic right away. We were excited, so we kept it up, um, and pull in a lot of content from our journals and from our meeting and, and elsewhere. So nine months after the launch of the redesign, we showed an increase in users by 35%
Chris Bonney:so tell us about, um, you know, so you, you're, you weren't putting in a big effort around gathering the emails and first party data, but then you were, and you made a real conscious effort to not only make sure that the blog posts were unique in, in the body area of them, but that you were putting these various calls to action. So from another data point, what was that acquisition of, uh, the emails and the first party data? How, what did those numbers look like for you?
Amy Gavin:Yeah, so nine months after the launch, we had 2,500 web visitors to sign up to receive emails from us. So yeah, and in the context of our membership and our meeting attendance, that's a pretty good number. I'm with, we have about 7,000 members and about 3,500 people attend our meeting each year. So, uh, we have been really pleased with that number. Yeah.
Chris Bonney:Did it, did it claim, did it, did it spike in and go up and down and for any particular events or is that just like a steady over nine months, there was X number generally per month that was kind of the same or
Amy Gavin:it's pretty steady. Um, and I think that's due to us publishing content on a steady routine basis.
Zach Wilson:Oh, that's a, that's 300, that's 300 unique, uh, pieces of data every month. Yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the now, well, I don't know that to explore it a little bit more. I mean, from what you're doing in terms of different channels, how are you, have you done anything different differently over the last nine months to, um, garner new readership or is it, is it organic? Is it content marketing? Is it social? Is it the, the, the, the, some of the whole, um, yeah, I mean, what are you doing in terms of upping, upping that or is it across all channels? It's increased.
Amy Gavin:Yeah. Um, so there's obviously a lot of marketing that goes behind it. We didn't just throw everything up there and the masses roll in. Um, you built it and they came back. But behind the scenes we were doing a lot to encourage traffic to come to our site. Um, their organic traffic did increase by 21% during those nine months. So I guess that's the masses rolling in by themselves. Um, but we also ramped up our social media, so for every blog post that we, uh, that we published, we promote it on social media as well with a teaser and a branded URL, shortened URL to drive people to the site. Um, for really high value content. We did some ad retargeting through another tool where we targeted people who had visited our site before with an ad on third party sites to try to draw them back in and give us their email address on this second go. Um, email marketing, we ramped up a little bit, um, and we changed a little bit, whereas in the past we would provide full text content and an email to the media for example. And we changed that where we would give them just a snippet and send, send them to our site teaser. Yeah. Yeah, that's important. Cause we also, yeah, we also noticed a lot of referral traffic, a big increase in referral traffic. So I think that's due to providing tools on the page for people to share with. I enjoyed seeing that, um, because it means people, you know, if they're sharing our content, then it's resonating with them and, and they like it. Yeah. We know that our referral traffic increased by 39%. So that was a pretty good number. Wow.
Zach Wilson:It's fun to, uh, it's fun to just seem, I mean, you know, we're talking about a new nutrition, nutrition science and this isn't a, this isn't like a, I don't know, really masses fodder, but you know, to get to get some social, uh, social traffics and some social chair shares and referral traffic, that's, that's, that's gotta be really gratifying. I would,
Amy Gavin:yeah. Yeah. You'd be surprised though. Nutrition scientists talk about the content a lot. There's a lot to argue. Yeah.
Chris Bonney:I'm sure that's true. Hey, can you talk about, um, you use feather, right, for the remarketing stuff. Can you talk about how long you've been using them, what it takes to ramp up with something like that? You know, what is it for those that don't really am familiar with that term or familiar with the product? Just talk about what it is, why you chose it and how it's working.
Amy Gavin:Yeah, so we've been onboard with feather and that's FEA, T H R feather, um, for or just over a year. Um, and what they provide is a platform that enables us to track our, our web visitors buy a cookie on our site. So if a, if a visitor has cookies enabled, we can track them and then display ads to those people on third party sites. So if they go to the weather channel after they visit our site, they could see an ad pop up from us.
Chris Bonney:Can you control who, what sites the edge show up on? How do you figure that out?
Amy Gavin:Um, you can't exclude sites, so if there's something you want to avoid, then
Chris Bonney:that might be counter to your content or not in line with your organizational values or something like that.
Amy Gavin:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We haven't run into that yet, but it is, um, feathers, super easy to use. It's very DIY. Um, takes no time to get started. There are lots of options within the platform. It's been successful for us. We've been able to track a lot of conversions for, uh, registrations for our meeting and for webinar signups and different things like that.
Chris Bonney:What's the pull to get them back? In other words, what's the ad about? Is it an annual meeting ad? Can you control what ads show up where or when or, or what is it? How do you get them to see that ad on Yahoo or wherever and send them back over? What is, what do you guys put on that ad?
Amy Gavin:Yeah, so an example campaign for us would be, um, we would design an ad, let's say about content from our meeting. Okay. So if we had sessions about pediatric nutrition, we could design an ad that focuses on that. And then we go into the feather platform and say, Hey, target everyone who's visited our program page on our meetings site in the past six months and display this ad to them about pediatric nutrition. And then the ad would link back to maybe our registration page or maybe a landing page just about pediatric nutrition. It depends on the call to action there, but, um, you can get really granular and who you're targeting
Zach Wilson:[inaudible].
Amy Gavin:Um, you can also geotarget. Hmm. So we've had some success with that where there had been competing meetings and conventions and things and we kind of draw a circle around that convention and throw ads at people within that target area and drive them to our site.
Chris Bonney:Okay. Smart. Yeah, this morning. It's great.
Zach Wilson:So what other, we've talked about, we've talked about a lot in terms of uh, um, email marketing and content marketing, uh, re-targeting. What do you, what do you feel tactically from the organization as an, as the director of digital strategy? What do you, what do you guys, what's your best channel? What are you guys really succeeding and what's, uh, where, where, where can you improve? Um, just just curious.
Amy Gavin:Yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel like we've succeeded in the past year with, with ramping up our content strategy, uh, before we had all of this great IP that we weren't really using on w in channels outside of the original channel, if that makes sense. So for example, journal content, it just lived in our journals, but we didn't do much with it outside of the journals. We didn't translate it for a more lay audience to drive more people our websites. So that has been a big improvement for us over the past year and I think has led to a lot of success and a lot of new traffic.
Zach Wilson:Let's actually, I want to, let's just dig into that a little bit because just coincidentally the, in the last month we've had a quite a few conversations about this and this general notion and fear of people. We're giving away our IP. This is protected. We don't want to put out more content. We want to protect it. We want to make people pay. I mean, can you talk about that shift from um, just bureaucratically or from the board or how you actually sold that or anything along those lines?
Amy Gavin:Yeah, I hear that a lot too. And we feel that way. Um, but in order to get new subscribers and in order to get the media to report on our content, you got give them something, right? So when we share content from our journals, um, it's very brief. Um, it has high level data and the purpose is really to draw them back to the journal, the journal article and either subscribe or do pay per view on that article itself. Or the goal could be to attract a new author to submit his or her research to the journal. So there's that angle as well.
Zach Wilson:So are you doing, I mean, in terms of this process strategically, are you, you do a, you're doing just like direct pull from an abstract or you have one of the writers say, you know, here's this journal article. Let's consumer Phi. This just made up word. Um, you know, let's, let's make this appeal to the masses and tease out some content. And then, uh, as you talked about earlier, you, um, making direct, uh, calls or[inaudible] to try people say, you know, for more in depth version of this or what do you, what are you doing and are you seeing a direct tie to those, uh, those journals?
Amy Gavin:Yeah. So, um, it is hard. It's hard to choose content from journals because it can be so scientific and so high level and it's hard to know what's going to resonate with the public. Are our editors choose articles when they're accepted and identify them as possibly being newsworthy or noteworthy. And then we have writers who review and write copy based on the article. Um, and some writers are, have a more scientific slant and then some have a more marketing media, newsy slant. Um, so I think that's something we need to work is our voice and how we're communicating the research to the public. But we've made great progress in the meantime of using the content really to advance our mission.
Zach Wilson:Yeah, clearly, I mean with those, some of those numbers that you shared
Amy Gavin:and, and it's really interesting to see on social media and on the web traffic reports on what content really resonates. I mean some of it people just go wild over and then other times something that I think is really interesting as a consumer and flops flops. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So it's hard. Yeah. Is, is there a topic, I mean just for those of us that are interested in nutrition and you know, is there one in particular that kind of, you remember that was really popular or something that you thought, what's going on here? Um, yeah. Eggs. Oh really? Okay. People like to talk about eggs. Isn't that something? Okay. I think the article about egg,
Zach Wilson:this is huge. Is that on, is that operating? I thought I went to the site
Amy Gavin:well yesterday. There too before. Yeah. I think there isn't. Yeah, that's like you're going to do, are you going to do like a SQL to it just to keep the blockbuster hits CQL and this eggs too. Yeah. Eggs. Eggs are always a hot topic. Okay.
Zach Wilson:Alright. There was a, speaking of eggs, the place we went for lunch yesterday, I didn't get it, but there was a a, it was like a vegan burger place, you know, so, um, uh, the meat, like meatless burger place, impossible burger and some varieties of that. And one of them was like an egg. Like the burger was made. The Patty was like made out of like egg. That's not big enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one wasn't vegan, but it was just straight. It's strong. It struck me as like, Oh, I've never seen this before. That before we then, yeah, either at, I'd so, I don't know.
Amy Gavin:Are eggs good or not? We need to know, Oh, I can't get an answer. I want to know. You can't go on. The record is telling you, Oh no, half of ASN were declaring that eggs are, I can send you to a great website.[inaudible] dot org you can do a search. Okay, we'll search eggs and we'll do read all the arguments. Okay, we'll do it. I'll do it.
Zach Wilson:So if you were, if you were stepping away from this, looking back and you could have a conversation with yourself after this and say, you know, this is, Hey Amy, this is what we need to prove. Oh, this is one thing we need to really work on and improve over the next six months. Yeah. What would you, what would you say to your self after this and say focus, focus, focus. Let's improve on X,
Amy Gavin:um, audience segmentation.[inaudible] another big one. So we did a great job over the past year and will and continue to do a great job of acquiring data, acquiring first party data in a safe and quality way. Um, we're not breaking any laws. We all know there are so many laws right now and going into effect soon about data privacy. So I think we've done really well with acquiring qualified leads. It's in a good way because they, they're offering up their data on their own. Where we have sort of fallen short is the second part of that plan where we figure out how to provide content to the different segments of those audiences. Um, we did have, we have things in the works. We had a marketing consultant come in and lead our whole staff through a two day workshop where we talked about our current audience and our target audiences and we narrowed it down to seven personas. So we will now be using those seven personas to really drive everything we do. Those personas will be integrated into marketing plans, into new product development, into how we use our website and how we use email marketing so that, okay. A year ago I would, uh, if I could talk back, I would say get a better plan and for audience segmentation.
Zach Wilson:Interesting. Yeah. And there's, I think there's something there too with M and a, and you may not even have an answer for this, but it's just something that I thought about as you've collected whatever you said, 2,500, uh, 2,500, 3000 pieces of first party data. And if you're just collecting email address, got to figure out, you've got to put those, each one of those people in new a bucket. So is there a, uh, is there a, do you have a solution in our plan to do that?
Amy Gavin:We do. We do have a plan. It'll be harder going backwards with data we've already acquired, but there are tools on the market that we have our eyes on that we're hoping to implement later this year. There's a lot of stuff we need to do upfront to, to prepare to do that. Um, but starting in the fall, most likely we will be using a new email platform where when a user comes to our site and signs up to receive our emails, it depends on what page they visited and what page they signed up on and that will lead them into a, to a marketing funnel based on their PR, the persona that they, that we kind of apply to them based on our seven personas.
Zach Wilson:So just talk me through that step-by-step. So I go to an article on eggs. As Chris said, I've mid page, I see, you know, sign up for more monthly updates on our articles or whatever. I enter my email address, hit submit, then it dumps into this new workflow.
Amy Gavin:Yup. Yup. So then you're identified, so let's say that article had a real medical focus and the focus was cardiology because of eggs, heart health. So we've now identified you as someone who[inaudible] Mike practice medicine and who might be interested in heart health. So we can now target you with more articles in that topic area.
Zach Wilson:Interesting. And so is there anything me as the reader slash subscriber we'll have to do in addition to hit subscribe or is this just automatically done based on the meta data and the article and this email software?
Amy Gavin:Um, there are multiple ways to do it. We can do it where the, the user doesn't know. Yeah. Or we could have the user select something. Gotcha. But we do want to limit barriers.
Zach Wilson:Yeah. Friction is a big, yeah. User experience and friction is a big thing, but um, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, that's, that's going to be really interesting.
Amy Gavin:Yeah. And then after a user signs up for emails, we want to give the opportunity for them to go to a central landing page and select what, what type of emails they want to receive from us.
Zach Wilson:Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Interesting. Yeah. That will, yeah. That will help. That will help that audience segmentation a lot. Yeah. And driving, I mean, this is something we hear a lot two is we were, a couple months ago, we were talking to somebody about this problem. They've got tons of subscribers and they send the same, same email to, you know, 10,000 subscribers. It's like, well, you know, that that sort of audience and that messaging is, is not gonna resonate with the people. And then ultimately you just get as a, as a, as a receiver of those or recipient of those emails, it just becomes noise because you're not talking my language, then unsubscribe. Follows and so on and so forth. Yeah. It's a vicious cycle, so, yeah.
Amy Gavin:Yeah. Yeah. It's tough.
Zach Wilson:Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Are you guys, uh, Chris loves this topic in terms of a conversational web and email marketing. Are you guys gonna make a, a plan to make any sort of shifts in style and your email? Are you guys doing the, um, the sort of like HTML high, high gloss or high high fashioned emails or you're going to move to more of a, um, sort of a personalized conversational style? Or is that
Amy Gavin:we haven't really gotten that far. Um, I think it depends on the content. We market our meeting differently than how we market it, our journal content and differently from how we market things to the media. So I think it'll just depend on the content. Yeah.
Zach Wilson:Yesterday Chris put a screenshot up of a, um, conversational email to a group of people and they, they all, they all about jumped out of their seat. Like, we can't do this. This is like, what is this? This looks like an email from my[inaudible].
Amy Gavin:[inaudible] yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that might be useful for membership related emails for renewing membership and things like that. Um, but other things maybe not so much.
Zach Wilson:Yeah. Yeah, you have to. I mean, it's just like anything. And um, and I think in digital marketing and in general, whatever, whatever channel you're working on, it's, yeah. Develop a hypothesis, run some tests and see what produces the best results, right? I mean, it's, uh, and it, I think a lot of people, a lot of people in general get overwhelmed by just the idea of that. Like, I can't, you know, I don't know what to do. And it's just like, just if you don't know what to do, just your first step is just do, try something that you yourself would want to receive and, or see. Right? It's not that none of this is, I mean, it's very data-driven and somewhat scientific, but there's not an exact science behind a lot of this. Especially, you know, if you're in the nutrition world, if you're an agency like us, I mean, uh, there's a lot of it. A lot of this is just people just experimenting with some different ideas and some different hypotheses and seeing what sticks. But, you know, rinse and repeat is, it's a sort of suggestion that I give to people and don't be afraid to, don't be afraid to try something. You know? I mean, you guys, you guys are a great example. You know, taking a leap of faith and try something on your blog. It's exactly right. You know,
Chris Bonney:that's a recurring theme for us. It's a recurring theme on the spot on this podcast. Um, yeah, that, you know, we continue to talk about and mention and, and recommend. Just, just get in there and do it. Start looking at some numbers, tweaking and before, you know what that year's gone by and you're a pro,
Amy Gavin:right? Yeah. I mean really that's kind of how we feel about the data acquisition on the blog. I didn't even realize it was so successful until months down the road. Sure. Right.
Chris Bonney:Okay. That wasn't a good idea. I'm glad we did it.
Amy Gavin:Yeah. So I definitely advocate for just jumping in and trying things and like you say, there's no science to it because it changes every day. There's a new tool. There's some new techniques I have read. Great
Chris Bonney:segue. I mean, I think, you know, um, uh, as we're, as we're getting ready to wrap up today's podcast, want to ask you, um, what is it on the horizon? Like you just said, there's other things out there and you've mentioned a few things that you're looking to do in the future, but what are, you know, what's the big vision? Are there tools that you're looking to get into someday or you know, this is sort of the vision for where you want to take things. Anything you can share in that regard?
Amy Gavin:Sure. Um, I think our work in audience development is gonna drive a lot. I w there will be some market research done soon in relation to that. So that'll drive a lot of what[inaudible] is doing in terms of tools and techniques. A new email marketing platform is on the horizon for us. Um, also some new engagement tools for our members, which we hope will also encourage increase in web traffic and increase in engagement on our sites. So things like things like, um, apps that sort of mimics social media that our members can use to network with each other and share our content, an external content to really, um, so that's on the horizon,
Zach Wilson:right? Yeah. Yeah. Those are, yeah. That's cool. You guys are doing great stuff.[inaudible] something we should put a pin in and have a follow up. But I, I, that just occurred to me cause it's also recurring, uh, conversation, which is interesting that you have talked, you've talked a lot about, a lot about different toolsets, uh, feather and the website as a tool. Your CMS as a tool. Yeah. The new um, email platform. What you haven't talked a lot about, which is kind of fascinating to me is your, your AMS and how, how that's actually used behind, I mean you mentioned it talk for 40 minutes and no one said AMS. She said it once, it just occurred. Well she said it once. She said it once, but you know, this is like Ed's very interesting. Yeah. And I mean maybe we can have a follow up on, on, on just that and you know where the AMS stands in this whole, um, digital,
Amy Gavin:well, I can give you a, yeah, I can give you a quick tidbit about that. We treat our AMS as the version of record, so we don't do a lot of writing back to our AMS. We want to keep the data in the AMS as clean as possible and we preserve it so that we can use it for membership communications so that new users don't get in there and then unsubscribed from things. So yeah, it's, it's, it's not so much used as a marketing tool at ASN.
Chris Bonney:Yup. That makes sense. Yeah, makes sense. Um, Zach, you wanna have any closing words as we get ready to wrap up for today? Anything you want to ask Amy, anything you want to talk about and share with the listeners?
Zach Wilson:Um, no. I, one just thanks for having us. This is a great conversation and, uh, again, uh, just don't be afraid to try new things. Um, try to avoid death by bureaucracy, uh, in decision making. Um, if you, if you have the freedom to do so. It sounds like Amy has a lot of freedom to, uh, as a, as a, as a digital strategist, um, to do these things and, and try different things. She's clearly, uh, earned a lot of trust from, uh, her, her executive director and the board, uh, to jump off and experiment. So, um, if you have the freedom to do that, run off and do it and have some fun.
Chris Bonney:Yeah, absolutely. Amy Gavin from the American society for nutrition, nutrition.org. Check it out. She's doing great. Great work out there. Amy, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I hope our story inspires some of your other listeners. Yeah, awesome. I'm sure it will is great stuff. Web marketing insights podcast, closing another edition. Thanks everyone for listening. Please subscribe. If you're watching this on YouTube, check us out on iTunes and Spotify and all the other great channels as well. Feel free to leave comments on any of those. We'd love to hear from you. Uh, thanks for joining us guys. I will catch you next time. Hi everybody. Thanks for checking out the podcast today. Go to Gulo Solutions.com to learn more about us. Subscribe to our newsletter. Uh, also if you can hit subscribe on our channel here on YouTube, uh, that would be great as well.